Re: Required ability of software? none

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From: Paul & Eleanor (goodhill_at_xmission.com)
Date: Fri Feb 16 2001 - 06:47:02 CET


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Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:47:02 -0700
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Subject: Re: Required ability of software? none
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Ralph Hartley wrote:
> How hard are you willing to work to preserve data you don't care about?

Not very, if the data is already in the full caveXML, I'll just leave
it there.

> How hard are you willing to work to remove data you don't care about?

I was thinking of extracting only what I wanted.

> > If you don't want to loose data don't send it through anything that
> > doesn't preserve what you want.
>
> But first, make sure there *is* something that preserves what you want.
> That is the goal of CaveXML.

Hopefully the caveXML file with extra stuff serves that purpose. I
guess
we are in agreement on that point.

> There are other choices. You could help him fix his software. The best
> time to do that is when designing the format and the tools that go with
> it. That time is, of course, now.

That is assuming he isn't just using caveXML to transport data. He may
use something else to store it.

Another choice is I can build something that merges just his subset
and my subset.

> >
> >> Without the ability to ignore, but
> >> transmit, unused data, there is no way to make an interchange language,
> >> because some programs will REQUIRE information that other programs FORBID.
> >
> > Solution? Keep the original.
>
> That is not a solution! It doesn't allow data added in the new format to
> be merged back in.

This is the problem of the person who has the one-way solution. When
the
are not in 'the loop', they might feel the pressure to complete circuit.

> A successful exchange format should allow a much more
> "component" based approach to using programs. For example, I might want
> to use the viewer from compass to look at the lineplot, but do loop
> closures with some other program (some people consider compass's loop
> closures broken, it doesn't matter for this discussion if that is true
> or not), and then use my program to draw the map. And I never want to
> know or care about what conversions are going on.

Sure, I totally agree, but those who don't make the round trip can
just watch you.

> The implementation of a two way converter for a given program may
> actually work by keeping a copy of the original, and keeping track of
> enough correspondences between the original and converted files to merge
> changes back. Most formats allow some sort of "comment". The original
> and correspondence data could be included as comments in the converted
> file. Deleting those comments would break the ability to convert back,
> but that means you have to do work to cause a problem (you can always
> mess things up if you try hard enough).

Sounds like a fair approach. I hope everyone follows such an approach,
it is just not practical to expect everyone to implement a roundtrip
solution, but I wouldn't care if there are one-way solutions that exist,
they just won't be as useful as a two-way implementation.

Good discussion as usual,

-Paul


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