From: Alexander Nickolsky (nickol_at_argussoft.ru)
Date: Wed Jun 26 2002 - 09:52:34 CEST
Return-Path: <owner-cavexml-outgoing_at_ethz.ch> Delivered-To: cavexml-archive_at_cartography.ch Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id 8AE9715864 for <cavexml-outgoing_at_ethz.ch>; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:11:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0, from userid 28) id 67E2B15841; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:11:56 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: cavexml-loopcheck_at_ethz.ch Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id 3033415865 for <cavexml-loopcheck_at_ethz.ch>; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:11:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0, from userid 96) id 066BC14A8C; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:11:52 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: cavexml_at_cartography.ch Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id AB8EE15864 for <cavexml_at_cartography.ch>; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:11:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ns.argussoft.ru (ns.argussoft.ru [195.7.171.132]) by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id 9AA1A148D4 for <cavexml_at_cartography.ch>; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:11:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from cachet (cachet.argussoft.ru [195.7.171.199]) by ns.argussoft.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12090 for <cavexml_at_cartography.ch>; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:49:50 +0300 (MSK) Message-ID: <003701c21ce6$6ef2b1d0$c7ab07c3@argussoft.ru> From: "Alexander Nickolsky" <nickol_at_argussoft.ru> To: <cavexml_at_cartography.ch> References: <20020624141426.7999614ACD_at_karmail.ethz.ch> Subject: Re: Progress report - cave survey data model Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:52:34 +0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Loop: cavexml Sender: owner-cavexml_at_karmail.ethz.ch Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cavexml_at_cartography.ch X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Knapp" <richfk_at_attglobal.net>
To: <cavexml_at_cartography.ch>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Progress report - cave survey data model
> How about passage dimensions? Will they be put as a measurement or
something else? I
> think it would be good to allow people to measure passage dims with
spherical coordinates
> if desired. One of the problems discussed on CaversDigest was taking LRUDs
at a pit or
> other very high angle/incline shots. There really is no Left or Right
since the survey
> line goes straight down. LRUD could still be used but it would just be
shorthand for 90
> deg off the last shot at zero inclination. If the surveyor wanted other
dimensions
> recorded (for solid modeling or whatever), they could be added:
>
> azimuth = "135" incline="+45" distance="10.5"
> azimuth = "215" incline="-45" distance="40"
> It is like having spray shots for passage dimensions. If such information
is associated
> with a Shot element, then having the reference point specified would be
necessary as well
> (at="").
Also there could be no clear 'left' or 'right' even without vertical
dimension.
Assume a survey path, sharply turning in the middle of a large volume or in
the forking.
Right and left dimensions can possibly provide no information about the form
of the cave.
Additional shots, just for more precise outline is a common practice.
The most interesting problem (and the real one) is how to represent data :
shots or stations. Speaking mathematically, it is a graph representation.
stations are graph nodes, and shots are branches. The problem is
that nobody surveys this way. So shots should be recorded.
Here comes another problem : there should be some information about
the station (name does not belong here, but comment, binding to outline,
height). We have two stations, which one this information belongs to ?
Please note, this is not an XML problem, it appears even on paper -
A1-A2 65 12.3 'large boulder in the middle of the passage. Narrow passage,
couldn't measure angle well
Where is the boulder ? At A1 or at A2 ?
Notice that the first part of comment belongs to the station, but the second
one belongs to the shot.
OK, let's assume that all that data always belongs to the first station.
If there are several shots from A1, how these data should be treated ?
A1-A2 65 12.3 height=2.5
A1-B1 120 5.6 height=3.5 ' Mistake ?????
And there will be some stations with no place to put comments - the last
stations in branches.
Another problem - what to do with backward shots ?
>
> I see Person but not Role/Job/Position. If those items are just an
attribute, then a
> survey member can only have one position during a survey. However, there
are many times
> when one person does many things: sketch, backsights, and lead tape or
frontsights and
> inventory.
Agree
> Will things like Book Format (one or two line data collection), Tape
Method, BackSight
> Method, PassageDimensions, etc. be put under the Survey as attributes? Or
will these be
> under Method?
I think the relation is 'Survey has Methods'
>
> Will there be a Survey header to collect all the header info and keep
those elements
> separate from the Data section or will it just be Survey?
Should be...
> Should consideration be given now to simple "inventory" data like
temperature, wind
> velocity, humidity? If a precision survey is being done (theodelite),
temperature may be
> required to process the data.
There is a lot of data that could be measured. For example, direction of
cracks in the ceiling,
which is very informative. However, many of these do not directly connected
with the survey
measurements. It is possible to make a special entry like <value
name='temperature' units='celsius'>8.2</value>
where any measured data will go.
I think I have some language problems. Could you explain some terms :
> > Branch
> > Cave
> > CaveSystem
> > Fieldbook
> > Instrument
> > Interpoint <== what's this ?
> > Leg
> > Map
> > Measurement
> > Method
> > Node
> > Organisation
> > Person
> > Point
> > Project
> > Role
> > Segment
> > Shot
> > Spur <== what's this ?
> > Station
> > Survey
> > Team
> > Technique
> > Trip
What's the difference between node and station ? leg and measurement ? map
and survey ?
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Wed Jul 10 2002 - 21:35:00 CEST