From: P A Hill & E V Goodall (goodhill_at_xmission.com)
Date: Fri Oct 18 2002 - 18:02:22 CEST
Return-Path: <owner-cavexml-outgoing_at_ethz.ch> Delivered-To: cavexml-archive_at_cartography.ch Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id 83265159CD for <cavexml-outgoing_at_ethz.ch>; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:19:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0, from userid 28) id 4CCA415949; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:19:14 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: cavexml-loopcheck_at_ethz.ch Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id 3C71F159B2 for <cavexml-loopcheck_at_ethz.ch>; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:19:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0, from userid 96) id 2059D15929; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:19:10 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: cavexml_at_cartography.ch Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id D2856159B2 for <cavexml_at_cartography.ch>; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:19:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mgr1.xmission.com (mgr1.xmission.com [198.60.22.201]) by karmail.ethz.ch (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id 32CAC14ACF for <cavexml_at_cartography.ch>; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:19:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [198.60.22.200] (helo=mail.xmission.com) by mgr1.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 182ZaM-0006vF-01 for cavexml_at_cartography.ch; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:02:50 -0600 Received: from goodhill.dsl.xmission.com ([198.60.114.17] helo=xmission.com) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 182ZaM-00045h-00 for cavexml_at_cartography.ch; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:02:50 -0600 Message-ID: <3DB0308E.4010001@xmission.com> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:02:22 -0600 From: P A Hill & E V Goodall <goodhill_at_xmission.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: cavexml_at_cartography.ch Subject: Re: Other Definitions - Raw Data? Edited Data? References: <9718D3B1ED18D31180F000A0C99DE22301F7EC9D_at_ihmdex03.ih.navy.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop: cavexml Sender: owner-cavexml_at_karmail.ethz.ch Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cavexml_at_cartography.ch X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11
Thrun Robert IHMD wrote:
> Some of the editors supplied with cave survey data processing
> programs will add a decimal point and trailing zeroes after a
> value that is typed in. By some conventions, 15.00 means a value
> that is greater than 14.99 and smaller than 15.01.
>
> SMAPS lets the user select the number of digits after the decimal
> point and rounds to that value. I once did the following with
> SMAPS 4.0: I set the units to meters with no digits after the
> decimal point. I typed in 1.45. SMAPS immediately rounded and
> displayed this as 1. and stored it in binary as 3.28083 in its
> data file.
Bob, thanks for reminding us that "raw" is nearly an ideal because any
software changes the data a little bit.
Moving forward down the list of definitions. It would seem to me that
the result of a "1.45 m" being converted to "1 m" is the difference between
"raw data" and "edited data". This suggests a possible tweek to the
definition of "edited".
Bob's change wasn't a change he wanted to do or at least wanted to do to
real data, but it is some changed introduced. It is not for a "significant"
type of processing (Final, Leg, Reduced and/or Adjusted or combinations
there of), but just a change in the values to clean them up (in the flawed
logic applied by anyone selecting the particular options which Bob points out).
As a result of Peter's attempt at tighter defininitions we can later
discuss data sets which have various combinations of "field", "raw",
"edited" and "final" data in them and whether and how such combinations
would be supported or not supported or ignored in CaveXML.
The curious scenerious become things like:
Bob makes exactly this mistake in his data getting 1.0 (or the equivalent
in feet) into his data set. He converts it to CaveXML format and sends it
to me. I notice the discrepancy by comparing an accompaning image of the
"field data", i.e. a scan of a page from the book. I don't want other
folks who just love to play with cave data to phone either Bob or I and ask
why there seems to be a discrepancy between the SMAPS data and the results
of using the CaveXML data. Imagine someone who brings up both sets of data
in a viewer and then notices the .45 meter difference.
The 1.45 can be described as a "field" value and somehow included as the
"final" version of this datum. The 1.0 can be described as an old "edit"
of this value either in a comment or maybe even in some trick ability of
CaveXML to allow for retention of old values.
Now that I have attempted to use "field", "raw", "edited" and "final" to
describe what is going on, I find "final" to be slightly confusing. Once I
have worked out all the typos, field errors, mis-understands etc. I am not
"finished" yet, the whole point of preparing the data is to manipulate it
in one or more software systems be they mathematical transforms of the data
or just viewers of the data. I would suggest picking a different name for
this fully cleaned up and ready for "real" processing data set. Maybe
"preferred" or "cleaned" or "correct" or "accepted" or ...
To paraphrase John Paul Jones (1), I have not yet begun to process the data.
So Bob has helped us move closer to what "edited" and "final" actually means.
-Paul
(1) John Paul Jones: The (Scottish)American Naval captain who gave the
British lots of trouble during the American Revolution/War of Independance.
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